Interview with a Troll
May 28, 2012 § 22 Comments
Recently I was approached by a newspaper reporter (who shall remain nameless) about a possible article on trolling. I agreed under the condition that I could talk about the importance of defining one’s terms. I was also asked to put the reporter in touch with a troll. I asked “Brian Macnamara,” who sometimes trolls under the name Paulie Socash (further info on Paulie here). In the end, the paper wasn’t able to run the piece (perhaps unsurprisingly, given Brian’s responses), but I asked for permission to post his answers.
How long have you been trolling for?
This depends on how one defines trolling, which few seem to know how to do and I hope you at least attempt to in the article. Really, I could ask a journalist the same thing given the similarities between what trolls and journalists do online. The goals are very much alike: to draw public attention to something (often without a full knowledge of it because that’s not the point) and invoke an emotional response from the public. Journalism that misinterprets things, fails to get the full story, or is deliberately provocative gets angry or otherwise impassioned responses, right? From where I sit, this is done deliberately to get more attention/page views. Same basic model as trolling. Trolls do it for the lulz. Journalists for a paycheck.
What exactly do you do – please give examples if you can (in broad terms if you don’t want to ID yourself)
This depends a lot on when and where (ie, what platform/space). Right now I’m not very active. One thing is that trolling really should be done in public: message boards, comment sections, social media sites, etc. Posting on a person’s facebook wall isn’t really trolling, and trolling isn’t the same as “cyber-bullying.” Base level trolling is just interjecting unwanted/controversial opinions one probably doesn’t even hold into a community that will react to them: pretty much any forum that isn’t regulated all the time has trolls of some sort. It’s not a new phenomenon at all.
I personally concentrate on making spaces that troll people and where this basic trolling can happen: these usually relate to whatever is sensational in the media. To use a UK example, if you recall Raoul Moat, I made facebook pages memorializing him after his death and saying what a great man he was. These drew a lot of angry people who couldn’t believe someone would pay tribute to a murderer. The ironic thing here is that I would actually get death threats from people mad about someone saying nice things about a killer. Likewise, I’ve made sites that condemn people for things most are praising them for (I didn’t make it, but the facebook page “Soldiers are not heroes” is a good example).
Who have you targeted and why?
In general, I target earnest people. People who take what they do online far too seriously. Grief tourists, for example, who are individuals who seek out the latest media-sensationalized death and grow far too attached to it as if showing “respect” for some random dead person (usually white, young, attractive, media-friendly) fulfills emotional needs. The kind of people who care way too much about Natalee Holloway or Chelsea King or about catching the kid in the viral video who was mean to a cat via posting their opinions and heartfelt emotional rants online.
Obviously targets are also chosen based on political leaning and the like. I once trolled a bunch of Klansmen by acting like one of them and joining their communities to start, then acting like I changed my mind and creating a “former Klan for racial equality” site. They were targeted because they were earnest, stupid, and easy marks, but also because I hate racists (even if I sometimes play one on the internet). It may be just for the lulz, but nearly every self-identified troll I have ever interacted with has certain tendencies (and limits) that are part of their “real” persona.
Why do you troll? Why did you start?
For the lulz. Because people who are overly earnest and serious online deserve and need a corrective. I started because there was no way to have rational conversations with some people and because I like to debate things. But there’s also a time to just say, You are an idiot, which is the most basic, entry level of trolling and most honest people will admit they have done it.
What does it feel like when you’ve successfully trolled somebody?
Feels good, man. Probably a lot like breaking a news story that exposes some idiot politician or public figure who groped his masseuse. You are drawing attention to some other person’s failings. For me the goal isn’t the individual, though, it is the overall public reaction. It’s about controlling the outcome and the presentation of an event.
Could you tell me some details about yourself? Even if it was something like your gender and age range then that would be helpful.
I’m 30ish, male, college educated, gay, employed, and I do not live in my mom’s basement. I even lift weights.
Do you think trolling is fair game, or do you think it’s unjustified?
Of course it’s fair game. All the internet is a game. Unjustified and unfair would only be if the targets can’t just walk away, which is where the difference between trolling and bullying/harassment and where the legal difference is or should be. Saying mean things is often justified and necessary, and expectations of decorum online are ridiculous.
Do you ever think about the impact on the people who are on the receiving end of trolling?
Sure, they are willingly joining the party. Only those who choose to be trolled can be trolled. And hopefully they learn to not be such fools in public about whatever the thing they care too much about is.
I also think quite a bit about the victims of real, criminal problems like sexual predators, stalkers, etc. online and am baffled as to why people and the media get so worked up over trolling.
Last thoughts: the use of “trolls” by the media is way too broad and people need to define it better. The poor disabled girl whose image was used by people making offensive pictures and has been in the media a bunch was not “trolled” (though her mom probably was since for being an idiot): she was not the target of the meme, just a convenient photo to use. Likewise, people who are bullied online by classmates under fake names are not being trolled. Trolling is a art and not a crime.
FIN
I respect your work and am impressed by your sanity in these matters. Please contact me by email, I know much about modern trolling… on that note, the USA Today ran a cover story 2 days ago called ‘Mourning 2.0′ which might make the memorial page creation explode depending on the amount of impact it creates. Luckily for you the author didn’t touch on trolling directly.
Sorry to be so direct but I would really like to converse with you through email/IM or w/e. I know you update this blog often so whenever you notice it just send an email (10minute mail if you must) then we can plan a IM meeting on whatever service you prefer.
That’s all for now. herp derp.
This is very interesting, thanks for getting in touch. Sending email now…
Email sent!
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[...] trolls self-identify and consider of themsleves as a troll. They symbol their domain on forums with very specific [...]
[...] trolls self-identify and think of themsleves as a troll. They mark their territory on forums with very specific [...]
Obviously the government should not be legislating about trolls or other internet comments, but on the other hand trolls, or anyone else for that matter, have no right to leave comments on someone else’s website. Basically trolls shit in other people’s living rooms because they don’t like what is being discussed. The owner should not put up with it.
People put up Web pages with comment forms, but you say certain people “have no right to leave comments” because you don’t like the content of their commentary or their motivations. Are YOU trolling here?
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If you’re looking for people who enjoy online trolling for interviews, as a (generally) normal guy who enjoys the process of getting people worked up on the Internet (and has gone to some lengths to do so in the past), I think I may be able to help/shed some insight. Feel free to email me. Or not.
Hi Dave-O! Thanks for the comment, and the offer. I’m always curious to hear about people’s experiences. My email is whitney.phillips@nyu.edu if you have specific stories or insights you’d like to share!
Or, Interview with a sociopath.
[...] instead restrict their focus to trolling other trolls. Some trolls are very intelligent, and have extremely interesting things to say about trolling, while others have no real opinion about anything they do, other than the fact that it makes them [...]
The most interesting stuff I’ve read about trolling so far. This guy is pretty sharp in dodging all attempts at moralizing the issue. And, he is damn right about asking for a working definition, which still begs the question, and make pretty good distinctions between different modes of trolling and cyber-bullying, stalking and such..
Thank you! I’ve been lucky enough to work with a number of thoughtful, extremely smart trolls — talking to them helped my project immensely, even if I didn’t always agree with what they were doing. My thought was, you have to understand something fully before you attempt to respond to it…
> Trolls do it for the lulz. Journalists for a paycheck.
Especially because it’s true, Journalists are often focused on “selling a story”.
Haha nice trolling attempt
Trolling for me is often funny, sometimes annoying. It is like the medieval jester at court who would say “stupid” things but often bring out the truth. At least that is my “ideal” of trolling, that it breaks up encrusted patterns of thinking and forces you to see a broader pictures (even if the trolling is just stupid and disruptive).
I also think trolling is often a form of totally normal protest or rebellion against established norms or opinions, what teenagers do since the beginning of time.
He also makes a good point that trolling normally is never personally directed to a person. Cyber-bullying starts when you go to someone’s facebook friends and connect a person to posts / pictures that he has no control of, e.g. has a important investment in and can’t leave.
All forum’s have administrators or moderators who can shut it down, or people can just ignore it and leave the discussion.
In time people will just learn not to feed the trolls.
Thanks for the comment! Regarding your last sentence, people in the media who make money off stories about trolling would HATE it if that actually happened. Because then what would they write about?
Only after the last taboo has fallen, only after the last line has been crossed, only then will trolls and journalists realize that lulz cannot be eaten.
And thanks for posting the interesting interview!
Ha – indeed. Thanks for reading!
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